Wednesday, January 27, 2021

Bravery, Beaten Out


A comment worthy of note, by Jordan Peterson during his conversation with Douglas Murray, beginning here.  The punchline, which comes a few moments later:

“She’s a very brave person, and I’ve had a fair bit of that beat out of me, I’m afraid.”

Peterson is speaking of Abigail Shrier, who wrote a book: Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters.

Later in the conversation, a lot of talk about the recent US election, Trump, the radicalization of both left and right, etc.  But the focus was on letting go of Trump: if you believe Trump won the election, you have to believe that every institution in America is totally corrupted – and that Donald Trump is the only pure player on the stage.

First of all, it is a false choice – you don’t have to believe either / or.  But second, this was said in the sense of mocking the conspiracy theorists.  I just wonder: is it so hard to believe that every institution in America is corrupt?  I know it is scary to believe it.  But is it hard to believe it?

These comments came after a long discussion about how totally corrupt the American media is – a point on which they both agreed.    The American media – which cannot even find the morality to defend Edward Snowden or Julian Assange – certainly won’t hold American institutions to account.  Yet if it isn’t the media holding the institutions accountable, who, or what is?

In any case, there was much discussion around this.  What there was little of (none of, as I recall) was any statement that said the truth matters.  Instead… “it’s up to everyone right now to maintain their faith in the validity of the institutions.”  Truth – whatever one believes of this election or the one four years ago – apparently, is no longer relevant.  Just have faith.

There is already plenty of tension in the air, what with the covid pandemic (which they both seem to take quite seriously).  Everyone needs to calm down, wait for the vaccination, then we can get back to normal life.  “Don’t burn the ship just before it gets into port.”  In other words, let go of all the conspiracy theories and just believe as you are told…by the corrupt media.

Two people whom I normally find quite worthwhile to listen to.  I couldn’t finish listening to this video.


Jordan Peterson is right.  He has had his bravery beaten out of him.  I can’t blame him; he has gone through quite an ordeal.


  1. This feels like a bit of a bummer coming from previously-fearless Peterson, sure, but to be completely honest I feel rather defeated too, after having put my foot down on the Coronga issue. It became apparent that I'm almost completely powerless against the media.

    The lasting impact on me from the whole Coronga episode is a gut-level understanding that it's exceedingly rare to draw your own conclusions and stand by them when the world turns against you. I've ruminated before on how most people seem to view opinion as a sort of sport. You join a team, sing along, pound your chest, maybe punch some in the rival team, but ultimately everyone's expected to be a grownup and go back to being a regular, serious person. Back before Coronga, that was just the condescending cynic in me talking.

    But it turns out the cynic was closer to the mark than I gave him credit for. I watched many people, who I once respected as more independent-minded than average, enthusiastically join the mob chanting "stay at home". Even many who have been directly screwed by Coronga-inspired decrees can't bring themselves to call BS on what is clearly grade-A BS - even as they try to work around it out of necessity when no one's looking. Herd behavior is a real thing, and it's dangerous to go against it, especially when the herd is just a front for a more organized and purposeful force.

    For Peterson all the more so, considering his exposure. He may well have been risking more than just ostracism or a reeducation camp if he continued to tread the anti-Woke road.

    In reality, though, he probably does not even realize that "abandon life to avoid death" and protecting corrupt institutions "because institutions" are absurd notions, just as absurd as government-sponsored sex changes for confused teens. Peterson never gave the impression of being particularly principled in a Natural Law sense. Probably also part of the reason why he's put "trust in institutions" up there as a goal in these divided times of ours. It's a very utilitarian view, very humanist, very Hobbesian: better to live in a banana republic than have a civil war.

    1. I understand completely - both you and Peterson. Him, for what he has gone through personally; me, because too many important institutions are openly and proudly corrupt (in the past, they at least tried to hide this).

  2. Going from finding JP worthwhile to listen to, to not being able to finish listening to the video is definitely moving in the right direction.

  3. To remain breathing or not to remain breathing;
    that is the question which Jordan has answered..


    Why yes, this system can be trusted.

  5. You should read Curtis Yarvin's take on the GameStop "natural experiment".

    The Christian world of at least the ideal of truth and sincerity is official dead. The revealing of the open corruption has lead to ironic nihilism. This won't sustain anything resembling order outside of the order of a prison.


    The elites depend on the "white middle class" believing in the system because it depends on them following the rules. If the white middle class were to act like the elite's pets then the system doesn't hold. So far as I know, the white middle class is perfectly happy to welcome anyone else in who will ascribe to a compatible value system.

    1. Thank you to VirtualAlaskan for pointing out the takimag article, The Death of Civic Nationalism, from February 1. I would have missed it otherwise. I'm not sure I'm happy I read it, since it unsettled me even more than I am already from the events of the last months. I fear the future on behalf of my grandchildren. Peg in Oregon

  7. I can't see any reason to put any "faith" in the unfaithful. That is the big lie in and of itself.