A Fine Conversation

This is a conversation among three people: Benjamin Boice, an atheist (I gather), Paul VanderKlay, a CRC pastor, and Jonathan Pageau, an orthodox icon carver and one who looks at symbols.

There are many great insights.  I will not detail these, but offer a roadmap.  If you find several of these topics of interest, just watch the entire video.  It’s about 90 minutes.

The introduction is a discussion of the current mess.

6:22, PVK: we have lost the structures that held the West together for centuries.  “Modernity said, we don’t believe in those structures.  We only believe in competence and pragmatism, and that will be sufficient.  What we are seeing now is, no, it isn’t.”

8:03, a great discussion on the futility of inclusion and equality as these terms are currently understood.

17:34, a problem of modernity and post-modernity, there is no “glue” between multiple different narratives.  Is there one narrative that can facilitate the conflict and resolution of all of these different ideas?  (Guess the answer!)  They transition into a discussion of the Apostle Paul and the timing of his transition from Saul – and what may or may not be applicable from this to our time.

25:26, we are looking today at a broken Christianity – including using government, instead of the church, to help the poor.  The money really goes to government employees and contractors – they are referred to as Judas!

36:56, the protestant PVK offers his view of one of the sins of the Protestant church.

43:09, why is it problematic that white people are being asked to assume guilt?

49:17, is racism a big enough sin to contain all the other sins?  Comments about inclusivity and borders follow.

58:48, where do we go from here?  Great comments about the disconnection of the elite toward the people.  Also, this pendulum will not swing just one way.

1:05:56, Pageau: I have to admit, I am sort of a royalist!  A discussion of story and narrative as opposed to ideas.

1:13:07, we transitioned easily from this invisible virus that will destroy us to this invisible systemic racism that is destroying us.

1:17:41, will a new story emerge?  There is no better story than the one presented by Christianity.  This is why it keeps coming back, has staying power.  PVK offers possibilities of hope in outcomes to the current events; Pageau is not so optimistic; it will get ugly.  “Build an ark!”