tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post2709281903249179090..comments2024-03-28T09:59:13.754-07:00Comments on bionic mosquito: The Chicken or the Eggbionic mosquitohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-16626937164054402772018-07-05T11:45:24.070-07:002018-07-05T11:45:24.070-07:00@ Sag
I saw it first on YT, I can't remember ...@ Sag<br /><br />I saw it first on YT, I can't remember if this was the specific video or not, but he makes his point here:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6b2HBJ5wLg<br /><br />I seem to recall another interview where he stated those predisposed to libertarian ideas are genetic outliers(I'm assuming based on the usual Darwinian themes regarding evolution).Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-33406492459271336332018-07-05T08:58:26.925-07:002018-07-05T08:58:26.925-07:00Hi Peg/Nick,
Please post a link here on BM'...Hi Peg/Nick, <br /><br />Please post a link here on BM's if you happen to find it (Block's DNA connection). I'm really interested in a good laugh from time to time!<br /><br />-Sag.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-70556651192696973142018-07-05T06:08:15.098-07:002018-07-05T06:08:15.098-07:00"So my counter argument is that all of these ..."So my counter argument is that all of these people came to America when Renaissance and Reformation had ravaged the Medieval Christian culture under discussion here." - Sag<br /><br />By this argument, no one in Europe has medieval roots. Since that is obviously not true, your argument falls down on logic alone. No genealogical examination is required on my end. <br /><br />Because the immigrants came to the soil of the American continent after the Reformation does not mean these immigrants themselves didn't have medieval or even ancient roots. The Calvinists, the Lutherans, the Puritans (damn Yankees), and the Anglicans didn't just drop from the sky; they were descendants of the same medieval population as European Catholics today.<br /><br />You could make the argument that European Catholics preserved the traditions or ethos of the Medieval period much better than did the various peoples of Protestantism, and I wouldn't disagree with you. But this isn't the argument. My argument is that both modern Europeans and Americans share a common biological lineage, and therefore, the medieval and ancient traditions of the European continent 'belong' to both should they choose to remember and venerate them.A Texas Libertarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02980539931923054404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-90130899254423721542018-07-05T04:42:25.066-07:002018-07-05T04:42:25.066-07:00Yes, I'm aware of Block positing that notion. ...Yes, I'm aware of Block positing that notion. It reminds me of something I heard a while back about INTJ's being over-represented among libertarian minded people. I don't know if either is true, I'm pretty sure most such comments are anecdotal or guesses. But if they are, it reinforces the argument for decentralization and voluntary communities as much as possible if libertarian minded people are ever to try to realize their goals.(IMO)Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-83561664599426438972018-07-04T08:13:34.626-07:002018-07-04T08:13:34.626-07:00"I hope you're right even though personal..."I hope you're right even though personally I'm skeptical that we can ever achieve a 'majority' of libertarian minded people globally." Nick, wondering if you've seen Walter Block's article where he suggests that libertarians are motivated in their beliefs by something causal in their DNA, which implies there will never be many libertarian-minded people? Apologies for not having a link. Peg in OregonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-14860454396379134882018-07-04T04:48:57.122-07:002018-07-04T04:48:57.122-07:00BDev, if Victor continues to scream at this audien...BDev, if Victor continues to scream at this audience, it will be the last observation he makes at this site.bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-80187895797633069102018-07-03T22:22:10.128-07:002018-07-03T22:22:10.128-07:00Victor - Excellent observations and strategies. Th...Victor - Excellent observations and strategies. Thanks!<br />It will be interesting to see how corporate "culture" takes root as the potential common binding for the societies that grow with it.BDevnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-11839457067541934072018-07-03T19:40:54.517-07:002018-07-03T19:40:54.517-07:00There are many posts before my time here as a read...There are many posts before my time here as a reader- I will do so, thank you.Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-48164338276567342602018-07-03T19:21:04.573-07:002018-07-03T19:21:04.573-07:00"A Christian governance steeped Middle Age Ge..."A Christian governance steeped Middle Age German culture will yield libertarian law and hence libertarian outcomes."<br /><br />Nick, as I have already mentioned, it wasn't a "Christian governance." It was both much more and much less.<br /><br />As to relevant posts, start with the several posts I have written based on the work of Fritz Kern:<br /><br />http://bionicmosquito.blogspot.com/search/label/Fritz%20Kern <br /><br />Best if read in date order, I suspect.<br /><br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-47936966857726682502018-07-03T18:41:23.008-07:002018-07-03T18:41:23.008-07:00"I think we finally understand each other&quo..."I think we finally understand each other"<br /><br />We are coming closer. :)<br /><br />"Why didn't you say right away that you were concerned about a Calvinist theocracy?"<br /><br />That really wasn't my primary concern.<br /><br />"But nowhere does this follow from the point discussed at this blog. "<br /><br />IMO it does, I just made my case to BM. (he may not agree-but read it) <br /><br />There's a significant danger here and in fairness theocracy isn't my primary concern-, it was a convenient point of argument for me- which your comment re: "Puritans" reinforced. <br /><br />Even though most here(myself included) appear to see a need for a moral code to utilize the NAP fully, we must tread lightly.<br /><br />We've witnessed people commenting here making a case for the exclusion of people's entrance to the country based on racial predispositions(culturally, IQ, etc.). There may even be some legitimacy to some of it, but it paints with an awful wide brush and they are using moral arguments as well..."talented 10%" is one term that was thrown around, the recent bemoaning of "cheap labor", mix in a little sanctimonious religiosity and things can get nasty very quickly. The first step to any "war" is dehumanizing your opponent. "Turd world countries" is another term used in such a fashion. There's no question there's an element of truth in some of the racial dispositions...but a lot of atrocities have been committed in human history that started with a perceived "moral high-ground" that is often times coupled with religion.<br /><br />We should tread lightly...be honest...have honor, etc.<br /><br />I have significant doubts that historic Germanic Christendom is the best chance or initial reason for libertarian society/societies. I may be dead wrong, but we've heard the story of the superiority of German culture before...<br /><br />None of this btw detracts for my respect for BM, who puts himself "out there" intellectually several times a week.<br />Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-612476492152125032018-07-03T17:37:10.966-07:002018-07-03T17:37:10.966-07:00Never forget the Louisiana Purchase!
:)
(ok, it ...Never forget the Louisiana Purchase!<br /><br />:)<br /><br />(ok, it was between two "sovereigns", but still!)Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-42333228670243015592018-07-03T17:35:34.281-07:002018-07-03T17:35:34.281-07:00"Certainly one cannot subtract Christianity, ..."Certainly one cannot subtract Christianity, the idea of Christendom, and the Catholic Church from this reality, yet it really had nothing to do with a "theocracy.""<br /><br />I have come and gone, and been super busy in answer to your earlier comment.<br /><br />I've been reading your posts, but aside from my time constraints I'm not really decided on the issues surrounding cultural soil in general;though I'm concerned that the outcome of these discussions might yield unintended consequences intellectually. (like my reference to a commenter complaining about "cheap labor")<br /><br />I haven't commented due to time and I didn't feel like I had anything to add, I was just absorbing.<br /><br />It just doesn't seem like a stretch to me to consider theocracy as the lines between governance and the Catholic church were thin during the Middle Ages as it was. If my quote of your summary sentence above is reflective of your beliefs regarding the narrow set of criteria for the formation of libertarian society(the German Christian tradition), I think my deduction is well considered.<br /><br />If you do not, I understand. I'm not throwing stones, I'm exploring and deducing. <br /><br />My proof was an exercise in testing your theory on libertarian beginnings based on your work, but from a logical standpoint.(not historical obviously) I'm open to it being destroyed. <br /><br />That being said, the German's eventually took Catholic church "governance"(guidance)...(hence my reference to Theocracy)- I hate to wiki, but it's easier for me at this time:<br /><br />"From the High Middle Ages, the territories of Northern Europe were gradually converted to Christianity under German leadership, and made into nation states under the Church's guidance, finalized in the Northern Crusades."<br /><br />Of course, much of what you wrote about was the "bastardiation" of Christianity from a German/pagan standpoint in earlier times, but they eventually fell in line with the Church.<br /><br />I'm not one to see wiki as unquestionable truth, it's obviously convenient and at least sourced.(not always well)<br /><br />But this sticks in my mind as well:<br /><br />"In the German Holy Roman Empire of the High Middle Ages, there was a chronic power-struggle between the Emperor and the Pope, known as the Investiture Controversy."<br /><br />I knew this when reading your ongoing commentary from Western Civ classes I took in college 25 years ago and it circled around in the back of my mind, again driving my deduction regarding theocracy.<br /><br />I'd like to be very clear in stating I appreciate the excerpts and commentary you've made on the topic even if there are areas I'm not sure I agree with. I know it takes a lot of time to do so and you're obviously a voracious reader, and I appreciate the synopsis's(word?) you make as a result. My reading has suffered the last 10 years in particular, so I lean on people like you.<br /><br />If you have posts that you think are relevant that I may have missed I'm always open to them.Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-66190366591586011792018-07-03T16:52:11.337-07:002018-07-03T16:52:11.337-07:00Nick, when you began commenting several days ago, ...Nick, when you began commenting several days ago, I thought to myself "Nick hasn't been around for awhile." I thought this because I couldn't recall how long it had been since you last commented.<br /><br />Maybe my memory isn't so good, or maybe you have been hanging around without writing much.<br /><br />In any case, there has been a long-running conversation here about how close medieval law comes to libertarian law put into practice.<br /><br />Certainly one cannot subtract Christianity, the idea of Christendom, and the Catholic Church from this reality, yet it really had nothing to do with a "theocracy."<br /><br />If you have kept up to date with this dialogue, then I will leave it here. If you have not, and are interested in a few of the key posts let me know.bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-55204229847331789132018-07-03T11:55:48.928-07:002018-07-03T11:55:48.928-07:00Loved the zero hedge article. My own personal pr...Loved the zero hedge article. My own personal preference is purchasing sovereignty from the political class. In this case it looks like they got the same results while saving themselves a ton of moola :)Victorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12985538497409080098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-45523014490300624922018-07-03T11:01:54.457-07:002018-07-03T11:01:54.457-07:00Ok, here's the fundamental point: The Bryant ...Ok, here's the fundamental point: The Bryant Park Corporation did NOT take the position that owing to some widespread cultural predisposition toward socialism and some animus against free market / libertarian society it would be a fools errand to try to arrange for Bryant Park to be brought under private management. To the contrary, the Bryant Park Corporation TOOK MASSIVE ACTION. It had a simple idea: FREE THE PARK FROM THE DESTRUCTION OF SOCIALISM. RETURN IT TO PRIVATE CONTROL UNDER WHICH IT WILL THRIVE AND FLOURISH. It then told the city upfront EXACTLY what it wanted to do aka was totally transparent in its INTENTION. This gave it tremendous CREDIBILITY. It made its PROPOSAL then ASKED for the sale. It listened attentively to the city's objections - acknowledging and agreeing with them - but treating them as complaints rather than objections. It then took out a contract and politely said 'Heres the contract, sign right here'. And closed the deal. <br />The point is it did NOT talk itself out of the sale by telling itself its plan could never work given the cultural milieu of the city. Nor did it postpone its intention until it could lecture and convince enough people on the merits and virtues of libertarian society. To the contrary by CREATIVE AND INVENTIVE MEANS IT FINESSED THE SALE IN SPITE OF THE CONSENSUS. This is the way libertarians must think. LIBERTARIANS HAVE TO BECOME SALESMAN FOR SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL ECONOMIC LIBERTARIAN TRANSACTIONS. They must dump evangelizing in favor of entrepreneurship. <br />MAKE IT HAPPEN. DON'T WASTE YOUR PRECIOUS TIME AND ENERGIES IN DOCTRINAIRE DEBATE ON HOW IT MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT HAPPEN. Victorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12985538497409080098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-62774424687859586562018-07-03T10:17:43.238-07:002018-07-03T10:17:43.238-07:00@ BM
"Hopefully my response above addresses ...@ BM<br /><br />"Hopefully my response above addresses this, at least to some degree."<br /><br />Yes, it has to some degree, thank you.Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-435232240684622792018-07-03T10:14:13.117-07:002018-07-03T10:14:13.117-07:00@ Sag
"Wow, where did you get that Christian...@ Sag<br /><br />"Wow, where did you get that Christian theocracy from? Surely you can't seriously compare the Medieval stateless society in Europe to "a Christian theocracy"?"<br /><br />The deduction is this(I'm not saying it's true-I'm using BM's statement as P1):<br /><br />P: "The closest thing known in history to libertarian law came forward from a specific people with specific characteristics, cultures, and traditions – this in the Germanic, Christian Middle Ages. "<br /><br />P: A Christian governance steeped Middle Age German culture will yield libertarian law and hence libertarian outcomes.<br /><br />Therefore: <br /><br />A Christian theocracy yields libertarian outcomes.<br /><br />So there's the deduction. I'm not claiming it's true(in fact, I question it), I'm just explaining how I made it based on BM's argument.<br /><br />Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-91536370503561686282018-07-03T10:02:07.453-07:002018-07-03T10:02:07.453-07:00Hi Nick
I think we finally understand each othe...Hi Nick <br /><br />I think we finally understand each other Mr Baggi.. Badalamenti. Why didn't you say right away that you were concerned about a Calvinist theocracy? I'd have been in full agreement, well, about the undesirability of that remote possibility.<br /><br />But nowhere does this follow from the point discussed at this blog. You worry about some people applying what's discussed here (Medieval decentralized culture in Europe) and very, very loosely incorporate it in some form of fanatical Calvinist agitation. Now I understand where my confusion came from.<br /><br />-Sag.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-19698479577445776542018-07-03T09:51:24.656-07:002018-07-03T09:51:24.656-07:00Hi ATL
"Care to share a comprehensive gene...Hi ATL <br /><br /><i>"Care to share a comprehensive genealogy?"</i><br /><br />Well, actually you should be the one doing that, since you claimed something about "roots going as deep as.." without anything to substantiate it.<br /><br />Since we're talking about the Medieval period here, it's just a simple matter of looking at the peeps who came as settlers to the US and dominated the resulting culture. So my counter argument is that all of these people came to America when Renaissance and Reformation had ravaged the Medieval Christian culture under discussion here.<br /><br />If the settlers had come some 500 years earlier, then yes, you could have made the point about roots going as far as Medieval times, which is relevant for the discussion.<br /><br />Now you've just suggested a deeply rooted commonality which simply isn't there. Understanding the difference in "rootedness" may serve some practical purpose maybe, when steps towards more libertarian societies are to be considered. Different strokes for different folks, they say ;)<br /><br />-Sag.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-29484218316286394682018-07-03T09:24:48.169-07:002018-07-03T09:24:48.169-07:00Nick
“I do think some code of morality is require...Nick<br /><br />“I do think some code of morality is required to work in conjunction with the NAP but to me it's not so clear that it's constrained to only Christianity.”<br /><br />I do not just think of the moral code when I think of Christianity, etc. Most major religions proffer some version of the Golden Rule. What was successful in medieval Europe was both far more and far less than Christianity as offered in the Gospels. Far more: the Germanic ethic of honor; decentralized governance institutions; the highest value in personal oath. Far less: let’s just say that the Beatitudes were not the most influential passage for the time. (My review of the Germanization of Christianity gets into this quite a bit.)<br /><br />“I also have trouble throwing the Enlightenment period out of the window in totality (if that's your feeling, I'm not sure) so to speak because logic and reason drove the scientific revolution and all the corresponding improvements in our quality of life…”<br /><br />I do not throw it out in totality, but not necessarily for the scientific revolution. Science evolved significantly during the Middle Ages and I don’t think we can say what would or would not have happened absent the Enlightenment in this regard.<br /><br />I don’t throw the Enlightenment out totally because I have been so immersed in (brainwashed by?) the words (and sentiment behind) “all men are created equal” that I want to be more certain where and how this does or doesn’t apply.<br /><br />“I'm not sure that a Christian theocracy yields libertarian outcomes in the long run either. (not saying that you are pushing that, but it seems a logical deduction from your argument).”<br /><br />Hopefully my response above addresses this, at least to some degree.<br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-26513763091891910962018-07-03T08:46:55.415-07:002018-07-03T08:46:55.415-07:00Nick
"I'm not sure that a Christian th...Nick <br /><br /><i>"I'm not sure that a Christian theocracy yields libertarian outcomes in the long run either.(not saying that you are pushing that, but it seems a logical deduction from your argument)"</i><br /><br />Wow, where did you get that Christian theocracy from? Surely you can't seriously compare the Medieval stateless society in Europe to "a Christian theocracy"?<br /><br />A logical deduction that on the other hand is not pushed here. Don't see the logic, but if I may, a Christian (of sorts) theocracy was indeed prevented numerous times when fanatical Calvinists were persecuted before some of them came to settle in America.<br /><br />-Sag.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-48486312332960664782018-07-03T08:10:59.761-07:002018-07-03T08:10:59.761-07:00The park is still under the jurisdiction of the Ci...The park is still under the jurisdiction of the City which is part of the State of New York which is part of the USA. The transaction you refer to is rent. And the place is still paying taxes to the various levels of government. Therefore it is NOT in any way free or separate.<br /><br />And don't think for one minute that the City of New York just can't take the park back. It could pass a massive tax increase on the park making it worth the while of the managers to allow a buyout of the agreement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-47360187900643884212018-07-03T07:01:44.475-07:002018-07-03T07:01:44.475-07:00I'm not sure of the veracity of your comment i...I'm not sure of the veracity of your comment in it's entirety, but I LIKE your comment. (and I'm not saying your comment is untrue, I just truly don't know)<br /><br />In my travels in C. and S. America I found many things to appreciate about the various cultures and witnessed many hard working, good people stuck in crappy governance systems. I felt like Rick Steves in Iran.<br /><br />I hope you're right even though personally I'm skeptical that we can ever achieve a "majority" of libertarian minded people globally.<br /><br />On a spot of good news though, did you see this libertarian happening in Mexico?<br /><br />https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-02/mexican-town-overthrew-their-local-government-and-things-are-going-greatNick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-38270665760890507602018-07-03T06:54:02.840-07:002018-07-03T06:54:02.840-07:00Sag,
"But the roots of most of them did not ...Sag,<br /><br />"But the roots of most of them did not reach back far beyond the Reformation."<br /><br />Care to share a comprehensive genealogy? <br /><br />Puritans were only one of the types of pilgrims that came here from Europe and they largely settled in the north and as Rothbard and others have pointed out, became what we Southerners call yankees, progressives, liberals, or godless puritans.<br /><br />"I really must say that I have come to thoroughly dislike this "Judeo-Christian" label."<br /><br />Well, like it or not, we owe much of what is good in the West to those people who represent the Judeo prefix in Judeo-Christianity. Or are you saying that it is redundant because Jesus himself was a Jew? Somehow I don't think that's what you meant.<br /><br />"Every time I hear it, I'm going to mention Judeo-Bolshevism"<br /><br />Yes they are also responsible for much of what is bad in the West (socialism, communism). Awfully influential folks these Jews! I was about to say the force is strong with them, and then I just realized that the Jedi of Star Wars were a metaphor for the Jews! Mind blown!! I am probably pathetically late to this boat.A Texas Libertarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02980539931923054404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-89606524375908532832018-07-03T06:52:20.217-07:002018-07-03T06:52:20.217-07:00"I believe Rothbard had a thing or two to say..."I believe Rothbard had a thing or two to say about these Protestants whom(? that correct?) he saw as the forerunners of the progressivist Protestants, which he called the New Protestants, who played a prominent role in changing America into the US nanny state."<br /><br />This. Yep.Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.com