tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post9221476784001856158..comments2024-03-28T09:59:13.754-07:00Comments on bionic mosquito: You’re so Full of What is Right, You Can’t See What is True*bionic mosquitohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-57867002959404600892018-01-01T14:39:01.022-08:002018-01-01T14:39:01.022-08:00ATL
I did not merely state that they are closely ...ATL<br /><br />I did not merely state that they are closely tied, I said “The two are far more closely tied than either side would care to admit.”<br /><br />I stand by this. The philosophical roots are rather intertwined, to where both anarcho-capitalists and anarcho-communists point to many of the same guiding lights - and these not even a century old. I am willing to admit this; many care not to admit this.<br /><br />That's all I said.<br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-59533472209982760602018-01-01T13:20:08.014-08:002018-01-01T13:20:08.014-08:00BM,
Sorry for the late response. I decided to tak...BM,<br /><br />Sorry for the late response. I decided to take the holidays off of political discussion online.<br /><br />To say that communism and anarcho-capitalism are closely tied is a bit absurd. I could say the same of modern conservatism, and I'd be correct to a much larger degree.<br /><br />In the Spanish civil war, you did not have anarcho-capitalists, you had left wing anarchists, who are very closely related to communists. These anarchists supposedly hate the state, but they hate religion, money, private property and other bourgeois norms like marriage, heterosexuality, and the traditional family a little more. Therefore they tend to accept a state in order to rid society of these latter values. <br /><br />It is also not fair to say that an-caps are against authority or hierarchy. We are only against unjust or non-consensual authority and hierarchy. Since we are in the extreme minority, and our ultimate goals may be unrealizable in our lifetimes, we are generally okay with advocating for the lesser of evils concerning which unjust authority or hierarchy we'll accept for the time being.<br /><br />To say that this distinction is trivial would be like saying the difference between rape and sex is trivial. Most people recognize that the difference between rape and sex is consent, but admittedly not many recognize this distinction in governance and authority.<br /><br />One thing I can say about anarcho-capitalists is that we do not care if the majority agrees with us. We are interested in the truth and in a principled, prosperous, peaceful and sustainable way of life. We are interested in winning the future, not the current political popularity contest.A Texas Libertarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02980539931923054404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-35443462768298221282017-12-16T20:04:43.181-08:002017-12-16T20:04:43.181-08:00Ancap,
How does a foreigner claim lands and other...Ancap,<br /><br />How does a foreigner claim lands and other state properties paid for by my taxes and those of my family?Matt@Occidentalism.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395220402283030311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-79875301642618100332017-12-16T15:05:32.512-08:002017-12-16T15:05:32.512-08:00UC,
I'm mostly in agreement with ATL. I sure ...UC,<br /><br />I'm mostly in agreement with ATL. I sure wouldn't call the current trend a doctrine of the individual. Still, I find the man has no worth as a unit doctrine pretty compelling. Even from a straight libertarian perspective it rings true. Very few would survive on their own in a libertarian world with nothing of value to trade.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14010513213569295642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-51976325803867408172017-12-15T23:08:48.634-08:002017-12-15T23:08:48.634-08:00Hernando de Soto explains that most of the land in... <br />Hernando de Soto explains that most of the land in America was first titled by pioneers independent of any political authority / government. 'Tomahawk rights', 'corn rights', and 'cabin rights' spontaneously arose at the frontier, were ad hoc titling conventions serving to reduce and prevent conflicts over property ownership. This is the very essence of 'natural law'. A small set of rules best serving to prevent and resolve conflict tend to be 'spontaneously' synthesized and adopted when people are far from and free from political / government authority. In this way natural law is like language. No one individual authors a law just as no one word is authored by a particular individual. It is in that sense that the process is spontaneous rather than deliberative or 'positivist' i.e. legislated. Natural law and language have no author. They exist outside authority. What happens is that political rulers later takeover a natural law system transforming it from a system acting to forestall conflict into a strategy of domination. <br />Political borders are just such positivist law deployed by states and enforced by a states armed agents. They do not naturally arise as a mechanism to prevent and resolve conflict. Unlike private property rights which naturally arise and prevent and resolve conflict, politically deployed borders ceaseless incite conflict, are consubstantial with conflict, are unstable, tentative. They represent temporary lulls in the battle, temporary truce lines before the next round of armed conflict is initiated by rival political actors. Victorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12985538497409080098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-17761304034963681602017-12-15T21:29:51.676-08:002017-12-15T21:29:51.676-08:00"I am starting to think that these people cla..."I am starting to think that these people claiming to be anarcho capitalists are actually communist wreckers."<br /><br />The two are far more closely tied than either side would care to admit.<br /><br />I first came across this view when, after describing the NAP to my dad (oh, too many years ago) he responded, "What! are you a communist?" I thought he was mad, but...maybe not.<br /><br />Next: reading a wonderful novel of the Spanish Civil War. It was the communists and the anarchists fighting side by side.<br /><br />Finally was when I encountered Kevin Carson:<br /><br />http://bionicmosquito.blogspot.com/2015/07/left-libertarians.html <br /><br />Both communists and an-caps are against hierarchy and authority: the anarcho-capitalists only against the state, the communists against everyone.<br /><br />But, to many people and in many ways, this distinction is almost trivial.<br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-7220592095414762432017-12-15T21:08:32.672-08:002017-12-15T21:08:32.672-08:00"Now, if that foreigner wants to shoot the st..."Now, if that foreigner wants to shoot the state agent at the border, that’s his business – there are libertarians who would say that this is not a violation of the NAP. But this does not make the stolen goods legitimately his. The goods still belong to those who paid the tax".<br /><br />I am starting to think that these people claiming to be anarcho capitalists are actually communist wreckers. By saying that state property is actually unowned, they also cast the same doubts on private property owners. <br /><br />Who is to say that any property in the United States was originally acquired in a "voluntary property transaction"? Aren't the American Indians the original owners, and isn't there considerable doubt that their property was legitimately transferred? Exactly the same claims made to deligitimize state property can be made for private property.<br /><br />So maybe your private property also belongs to an immigrant. You certainly can't prove that you own it legitimately. Any "proof" that you may offer comes from the state. Matt@Occidentalism.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395220402283030311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-26437194547416516252017-12-15T20:40:09.352-08:002017-12-15T20:40:09.352-08:00So the legitimacy of any property is determined by...So the legitimacy of any property is determined by the subjective and arbitrary thought processes of the libertarian. The property wasn't taken from the libertarian. From where do you establish the ownership of the property and assign it to the libertarian? Matt@Occidentalism.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395220402283030311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-17696100214586204252017-12-15T20:25:52.107-08:002017-12-15T20:25:52.107-08:00"Now that I have killed this man I have mixed..."Now that I have killed this man I have mixed my labor with the land. This land now belongs to me"<br /><br />Once again, Matt, you got me to bust out laughing. You owe me a Jameson and soda.<br /><br />“Question: how is it that libertarians assert the right to decide the disposition of property owned by others, including state property?”<br /><br />Libertarians (and I include myself in this) will say that “state property” is made up of stolen goods. Therefore one is not violating the NAP if one relieves the state of these goods.<br /><br />But this is where the puritan (autistic) libertarian argument for open borders and the right to immigrate onto state controlled property comes off of the rails. To whom do these stolen goods legitimately belong? Ayn Rand gave the proper answer, through Ragnar Danneskjöld. Ragnar would relieve the state of these stolen goods (land, etc.) and return this to whom? Someone from another country? Hahahahahaha. That’s funny.<br /><br />No. Ragnar Danneskjöld returned the property in proportion to the amount of tax previously paid by the people who paid the tax. The only legitimate claim is by those who paid the taxes that the state confiscated to secure the stolen goods (land, etc.). So if a foreigner retrieved these stolen goods from the possession of the state, this does not make the foreigner the legitimate owner – the goods still belong to the one who paid the tax.<br /><br />Now, if that foreigner wants to shoot the state agent at the border, that’s his business – there are libertarians who would say that this is not a violation of the NAP. But this does not make the stolen goods legitimately his. The goods still belong to those who paid the tax.<br /><br />My point is not about “open borders.” My point is nothing more than: you cannot derive open borders from the NAP. <br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-69922561330226446442017-12-15T19:34:23.841-08:002017-12-15T19:34:23.841-08:00@Matt
Politically contrived borders are merely th...@Matt<br /><br />Politically contrived borders are merely the residue of battle. The only really just border is the border arising out of the voluntary property transaction. That is all.Victorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12985538497409080098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-50344365149517975782017-12-15T18:34:56.658-08:002017-12-15T18:34:56.658-08:00A libertarian turns up at a border. "Let me i...A libertarian turns up at a border. "Let me in!", he yells. A person behind the fence tells the libertarian "go away. You are not wanted here".<br />"what kind of property is this? Is this state or private?", the libertarian asks. "None of your business. Now leave", replies the the man behind the fence. <br /><br />Then the libertarian pulls out his gun and shoots the person on the other side. "I have determined that this was state property, and thus terra nullius", he says to himself. "Now that I have killed this man I have mixed my labor with the land. This land now belongs to me"<br /><br />Question: how is it that libertarians assert the right to decide the disposition of property owned by others, including state property? Matt@Occidentalism.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395220402283030311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-71722311692823723242017-12-15T17:32:56.618-08:002017-12-15T17:32:56.618-08:00"To the contrary they say it loud and clear. ..."To the contrary they say it loud and clear. They oppose all coerced wealth transfer"<br /><br />I disagree. Jacob Hornberger said "if they have to pay higher taxes, so be it". That seems to be the general attitude, because zero consideration is given. <br /><br />By the way, Ancap. Are you a very sheltered person? Have you been to a third world country? Do you speak any foreign, non-European languages? Because if you did you would understand that life in the West itself is a subsidy, paid for by our ancestors. Many countries do not even have a sewer system (although in "the West" the ancient Romans had sewers thousands of years ago), and streets flood when it rains. Ending the welfare state will not prevent the immigrants from imposing costs on the host population. Matt@Occidentalism.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395220402283030311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-22262956179246578242017-12-15T15:16:20.501-08:002017-12-15T15:16:20.501-08:00Ancap,
>want an end to the welfare-state
>w...Ancap,<br /><br />>want an end to the welfare-state<br />>want to import the entire population of Mexico and Latin America<br /><br />PICK ONEUnhappy Conservative (2.0)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05647440445427537430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-4807424733740704712017-12-15T15:04:45.434-08:002017-12-15T15:04:45.434-08:00>I certainly don't think white ethno-statis...>I certainly don't think white ethno-statism is the cure all solution, and I believe that UC does. After all, many white people are to blame for the current bloated mess of the state and society. In other words, I recognize plenty of white people as my enemy.<br /><br />Race is a necessary but insufficient condition for the ideal state. Other requirements would be a vital culture, a true aristocracy, and a basis in non-human principles (the sacred).Unhappy Conservative (2.0)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05647440445427537430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-39114301572833617122017-12-15T14:44:14.622-08:002017-12-15T14:44:14.622-08:00>I think your taking Bionic out of context a bi...>I think your taking Bionic out of context a bit. An individual is only a 'unit of account' if that is how you wish to see him.<br /><br />I am being deliberately pedantic with respect to terminology in order to draw out a more philosophical point about the difference in our worldviews. There is obviously a colloquial meaning to individual that is synonymous with person/man but there is also a philosophical trajectory to how the word came about and the worldview it signifies.<br /><br />It quite literally means “something that can’t be divided further”- a quantitative concept. Liberalism is by and large the philosophy that places the man-unit as the highest end. This is why it is both egalitarian and universal- mans supposed value comes from simply existing. I believe treating man this way debases him.<br /><br />The contrary, call it the Traditional view, is as I explained above. The potential of the person is best actualized in a broader political/spiritual context in which the rights and station of man correspond to his actual worth as a part of a higher Order.<br /><br />Ultimately I see the liberal/modern view of man to be far more crudely “collectivist” than the Traditional one. “Society” is just a collection of man-atoms with no higher function and the best “society” is one in which the man-atoms can maximize the satisfaction of their wants.<br /><br />>The more freedom a man has the more he is able to add value<br /><br />I agree with this completely but I think we mean different things by freedom. Freedom to my mind is the ability to maximize your true potential. It is not a virtue to say “well I could have been a pornographer.” Nothing is gained from the “freedom” to become a pornographer. Man’s true potential is maximized by his place in a higher order that gives him the place he most deserves.<br /><br />>those who advocate violating NAP to protect their preferred group do themselves a disservice by not appreciating the value of individuals<br /><br />If you admit you can protect your people by violating the NAP what of value here is lost? Seems like a very obvious choice (especially when, like me, you don’t even recognize the NAP to begin with). What is owed to this abstract individual? Here is that egalitarianism again.<br /><br />>More to life than ones and zeros<br />Exactly my point.<br /><br />If you are interested in where I am coming from you can read Julius Evola.<br /><br />http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/True_Person_vs._Liberalism,_Individualism_and_the_%22Immortal_Principle%22_of_Equality.htmlUnhappy Conservative (2.0)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05647440445427537430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-42080048008539438222017-12-15T14:07:41.120-08:002017-12-15T14:07:41.120-08:00I don't think the "doctrine of the indivi...I don't think the "doctrine of the individual" is what we have now. Here's my theory:<br /><br />We have a massive collectivist nanny state that encourages adults to remain as though they were children for much (if not all) of their lives. <br /><br />It has robbed them of their history and tradition through Marxist public education, and in so doing, it has robbed them of any connection with their cultural roots. Since they have no connection with their historical culture, they continually try fill this hole with a creation of their own, but their efforts are invariably bent through the prism of the indoctrination they received at the hands of the state. The result is the 'sodomite soup' you mentioned, as well as feminists and Muslims finding common cause, safe spaces, hysterical intolerance toward reasonably intolerant people, and all manner of other societal confusions.<br /><br />This cultural anarchy creates chaos, and thus it prevents meaningful opposition to the state from organizing against it. The American Leviathan is much smarter than its Red cousin to the East. Unified cultures are dangerous to the state, therefore it is best when your subjects are divided among themselves.A Texas Libertarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02980539931923054404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-43074980239692148262017-12-15T13:38:10.052-08:002017-12-15T13:38:10.052-08:00It’s extreme context denial. What you named is bu...It’s extreme context denial. What you named is but one of many examples of the same problem.<br /><br />The fact is painfully simple: in America there is a specific political system and it is not based on the NAP. No political system ever has been. To apply the NAP to it is like playing chess and saying “king me.”<br /><br />Honestly the NAP is nothing more than an intellectual game. It’s proponents are by and large unconcerned with political realities-or more sinister: they are in favor of certain present political realities and trying to pull the wool over the eyes of earnest libertarians.Unhappy Conservative (2.0)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05647440445427537430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-61682518302201876672017-12-15T13:31:44.049-08:002017-12-15T13:31:44.049-08:00It sounds like something UC would say. I enjoy rea...It sounds like something UC would say. I enjoy reading his criticisms of libertarianism, because I feel he often has something meaningful to say, something that challenges my conception or defense of freedom in a realistic way. <br /><br />Having said that, I certainly don't think white ethno-statism is the cure all solution, and I believe that UC does. After all, many white people are to blame for the current bloated mess of the state and society. In other words, I recognize plenty of white people as my enemy.<br /><br />White males in particular have done a lot for civilization and humanity and this cannot be denied, but not all white males are created equal and not all wish to be my ally.A Texas Libertarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02980539931923054404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-89298864459349033782017-12-15T13:29:02.353-08:002017-12-15T13:29:02.353-08:00To the contrary they say it loud and clear. They ...To the contrary they say it loud and clear. They oppose all coerced wealth transfer. Their argument is that if you don't want immigrants to benefit from socialist giveaway programs in your country your strategy should be to force an end to such giveaways. It should not be to create ANOTHER socialist program such as centrally planned immigration control, to try to mitigate the ills wrought by the first socialist program. In fact the creation of follow on socialist programs to deal with the mess created by the original ones is precisely how a country comes to be SATURATED in socialism. Victorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12985538497409080098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-72113007246062832812017-12-15T12:51:38.998-08:002017-12-15T12:51:38.998-08:00I am hoping that someone will tell me how it is wi...I am hoping that someone will tell me how it is within the NAP that a person comes across the boarder of my country and then gets free services like education, healthcare, etc? <br /><br />What the open boarders folks don't say is that the aggression against the locals has already taken place when the government of a country promises to give or just gives a person from outside the country some benefit at the expense of those in the country.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-62530125232722352152017-12-15T12:07:03.395-08:002017-12-15T12:07:03.395-08:00ATL, I first heard the term "autistic liberta...ATL, I first heard the term "autistic libertarian" from the individual to whom you have replied, UC. Just as it has struck you, it did also for me - even more so as I went further into this dialogue of culture and tradition and the mantra came ever stronger: "the answer to everything is the NAP, NAP, NAP."<br /><br />UC will agree that he and I see things a little differently when it comes to individuals, groups, etc. He knows that there are places he will go (certainly in dialogue, maybe physically) that I would never consider.<br /><br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-28466703628420388452017-12-15T11:39:22.732-08:002017-12-15T11:39:22.732-08:00Jeff,
It’s essentially the view of the ancients f...Jeff,<br /><br />It’s essentially the view of the ancients found in classical civilization. It may seem strange or dangerous to moderns but in the current year the doctrine of the individual has advanced to the point where both adults and children are being given hormone treatments and having their genitals mutilated. Every day it seems a new letter is added to the sodomite soup (LGBTPQHSHD). Don’t even get me started on human rights imperialism (sad gas baby picture time to send bomb Syria and kill its leader!).<br /><br />The Organic State allows for people to achieve their greatest potential where as the Liberal State debases the human personality and renders him an “individual,” which in turn makes the social fabric weak and vulnerable to predation from on high.<br /><br />Socrates wanted to be remembered as a man who fought at Delium, not as an “individual.” Self-sacrifice and heroism are the highest virtues of a civilization.Unhappy Conservative (2.0)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05647440445427537430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-43037291435020664822017-12-15T11:14:07.047-08:002017-12-15T11:14:07.047-08:00Off topic, but since the opening of this blog entr...Off topic, but since the opening of this blog entry cites Rush lyrics, I wanted to celebrate with any like minded folks here at BM the fact that the Moody Blues are finally going to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2018. Now, back to regular programming...... IpseDixithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02411994161249414489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-64469483764101296802017-12-15T10:36:53.297-08:002017-12-15T10:36:53.297-08:00I think your taking Bionic out of context a bit. A...I think your taking Bionic out of context a bit. An individual is only a 'unit of account' if that is how you wish to see him. The individual, to me, is the foundation of society, because a group is only a collection of individuals who share common interests. <br /><br />The more freedom a man has to live the more he is able to add value to his life and the lives of those around him. The more freedom a man has to leave the more his belonging to something outside himself becomes meaningful.<br /><br />The libertarian political tradition is the best we have to offer as flawed human beings seeking moral and material progress. Libertarians, however, do themselves a huge disservice when they focus solely on this and do not consider or appreciate the value of culture and tradition outside the realm of the just use of violence in society. Bionic's term 'autistic libertarian' is very apt.<br /><br />Political conservatives and others who often advocate violation of the NAP in order to protect the interests of their preferred group fall into the opposite trap. They do themselves a huge disservice when they do not fully appreciate the value of individuals. Often their goals as a group (such as the proliferation of moral virtue) are thwarted by the aggressive limitations imposed or the license bestowed upon individuals.<br /><br />"If you changed the number from 1 to 0 what would happen?"<br /><br />There is much more to life than seeing the world in ones and zeroes my friend.A Texas Libertarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02980539931923054404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-80769360808626182572017-12-15T08:27:17.755-08:002017-12-15T08:27:17.755-08:00Only my moribund occidentalism.org blog. I hadn...Only my moribund occidentalism.org blog. I hadn't posted there in years though, so I allowed the hosting to lapse. I still have the source so I will put it back up again around the end of the year.<br /><br />Its mostly about Asian politics, though. Back in the day it was quite famous.Matt@Occidentalism.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395220402283030311noreply@blogger.com