tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post8380257819023537587..comments2024-03-28T06:00:18.802-07:00Comments on bionic mosquito: Twenty-first Century Conservatismbionic mosquitohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-34292631963054626642018-02-25T05:36:16.285-08:002018-02-25T05:36:16.285-08:00Hi Matt,
I'm not sure, but to me it seems tha...Hi Matt,<br /><br />I'm not sure, but to me it seems that this man is rejecting identity politics both left and right. It is in that context that he describes himself as a "classical liberal" or even a "libertarian". <br /><br />Listen to this for instance:<br /><a href="https://youtu.be/9FmX1phv55c?t=8m5s" rel="nofollow"><i>Jordan Peterson on identity politics and the evolutionary basis for xenophobia</i></a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-31314311593740151722018-02-24T21:47:47.141-08:002018-02-24T21:47:47.141-08:00Redd and Jeff LeVesque,
Jordan Peterson is not al...Redd and Jeff LeVesque,<br /><br />Jordan Peterson is not alt right, and not because he disavows the alt right label.<br /><br />I haven't looked much into Peterson but from what I can see he is a classical liberal that refuses to call male to female transgenders "she". Matt@Occidentalism.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395220402283030311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-72542285063127457902018-02-24T21:25:56.038-08:002018-02-24T21:25:56.038-08:00I agree. I wonder how to argue with the likes of ...I agree. I wonder how to argue with the likes of Russell about the nuclear family that he has such a problem with. It is unclear to me how he views it through time. I have appreciation for his outlook, but he is definitely closer to a left-libertarian than myself. I'm curious if there's more to this nuclear family question, I guess.P Szarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09298180391605451618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-31035519537668373282018-02-24T17:09:19.803-08:002018-02-24T17:09:19.803-08:00Redd,
I've been doing a bit of reading, tryin...Redd,<br /><br />I've been doing a bit of reading, trying to figure out if there is any consensus on an alt-right definition.<br /><br />The article you shared most recently, while accurate, was nothing more than a statement that the GOP and right wing media are not truly conservative (GOP) and unwilling to engage the left in any way other that talking (right wing media). It details some of their errors which dovetail nicely with BM's Friday post "The Trees".<br /><br />I think it's pretty obvious that the alt-right is not a homogeneous group. I'd like to hear what some who identify as alt-right think about this article:<br /><br />https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment-conservatives-guide-to-the-alt-right/amp/<br /><br />I'd also like to propose that someone can not be drafted into the service of a political movement against their will (even if they share a high percentage of values, and especially if they take serious issue with even one.) <br />Jeff LeVesquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10965742156279448637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-28045783198980572232018-02-24T09:56:29.810-08:002018-02-24T09:56:29.810-08:00Patrick, historically the family has been the most...Patrick, historically the family has been the most decentralized institution of governance; historically this has been a (male) father and a (female) mother, along with their children.<br /><br />If this unit also includes grandparents, cousins, whatever, I am indifferent - it is their business.<br /><br />That there would also be single parents or same-sex parents is certain; that this type of family would provide defense against ever-expanding centralizing government is less certain - in fact I would say highly unlikely.bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-70741454066233643632018-02-24T08:25:28.845-08:002018-02-24T08:25:28.845-08:00Hi Peggy,
You're welcome. Here's a lovely...Hi Peggy,<br /><br />You're welcome. Here's a lovely example of a vibrant local community in Switzerland. They threw out a Dutch vegan activist for being <a href="https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-18/swiss-town-denies-passport-dutch-vegan-being-too-annoying" rel="nofollow"><i>too annoying</i></a>.<br /><br />That's the way it should be!<br /><br />Of course now we're afraid that she might decide to come back to us in Woodenshoesland ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-72267643530041616902018-02-24T06:30:56.303-08:002018-02-24T06:30:56.303-08:00I enjoyed this post Richard. Being married to a Sw...I enjoyed this post Richard. Being married to a Swiss, and knowing how dialects in Switzerland may vary from village to village, what you say rings true. Thank you. Regards from Peggy in Oregon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-25168032699125207132018-02-24T05:49:00.482-08:002018-02-24T05:49:00.482-08:00They were suggesting the nuclear family as you des...They were suggesting the nuclear family as you describe it is a product of laissez passer capitalism in the modern era. The idea was that pre-modern families were extended and local, because no one ever really left home. So he does not consider premodern family to be the nuclear family.<br /><br />I'm curious if you accept that argument and if so how does it affect your above statement stressing the importance of the nuclear family for all time.<br /><br />The next part of the question would be, or are you just protecting the idea of two parents, male and female, against the encroaching norm of single parent or same sex parent upbringing of children?P Szarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09298180391605451618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-84620695587946554702018-02-24T05:02:54.520-08:002018-02-24T05:02:54.520-08:00While you're all waiting breathlessly for my r...While you're all waiting breathlessly for my report on why Prof. Peterson is Alt-Right, despite his denials to the contrary, here's a good article on why traditional conservatism is harmful, useless, and ultimately dead:<br /><br />https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/02/jack-kerwick/the-big-con-and-why-the-left-will-continue-to-win/<br /><br />Since the Alt-Right IS willing to confront the Left on their own terms, and given how useful conservatism has been to the ruling-classes, it's easy to see why the elites and their media presstitutes are frantic to smear the Alt-Right at the outset, before it can organize and gain traction. But traction it WILL get, because conservatism is useless (see above) and libertarianism is a toothless non-starter that aliies itself with the Left as often as it opposes them.Reddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084989411936052457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-56243436153786351172018-02-24T04:39:55.904-08:002018-02-24T04:39:55.904-08:00Jeff, stand by; I'm not ignoring you: Since yo...Jeff, stand by; I'm not ignoring you: Since you asked for an explanation on why Peterson and his ideas are alt-right vs. conservative I've been forced into watching the entire two-hour speech whilst taking notes. Will report back shortly! :o)Reddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084989411936052457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-75171414834297254082018-02-24T00:50:57.005-08:002018-02-24T00:50:57.005-08:00Hi WB,
Perhaps the heart of the matter is "n...Hi WB,<br /><br />Perhaps the heart of the matter is "nationhood" as we on the other side of the Atlantic divide understand it (or should I say understood it?). Over here, belonging to a nation implicitly means belonging to a certain ethnic group. But the latter isn't, or shouldn't be, that relevant for it is far too generic. For instance, belonging as I do to the Dutch nation means that I'm white, yes. But Germans are also white. We don't belong to the German nation and don't care to. Same goes for the French nation. They are white, yes, but who cares? They're different in outlook and customs which is fine. <i>Vive la difference!"</i><br /><br />Even within a tiny little nation like the Dutch one, we only occasionally feel as one when we compare ourselves to foreign nations. But internally we feel more attached to our different provinces/regions all with recognizably different dialects and customs. Cultural decentralization, so to speak ;)<br /><br />Now the situation is perhaps somewhat different in what has been called a "proposition nation," like the US. Race might be more of an issue there, because it isn't an implicit given, like with the Dutch nation. Has the US "nation" ever been one in the sense that the Dutch, French, German, English have been? Doubt it. Not today, that's for sure.<br /><br />The difference might be that the tendency to identify nationhood with race is understandably greater in the US. Having said that, this unfortunate tendency is also spreading in European nations, primarily because of the orchestrated mass influx of a foreign and openly hostile cult(ure).<br /><br />Kind regs from Amsterdam,<br />RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-40620178294827712182018-02-23T12:10:19.146-08:002018-02-23T12:10:19.146-08:00Redd,
I am using "racism" the way the m...Redd,<br /><br />I am using "racism" the way the media uses it, or a school or university uses it. I think most of the people that are labeled "racist" are not by the dictionary definition. I think a lot of the people that label THEMSELVES "racist" are not racists by the dictionary definition.<br /><br />John Derbyshire isn't alt right and hasn't had much influence on the alt right. Rather Derbyshire is a "racist" classical liberal. Buchanan is a populist, but also not alt right. Steve Sailer has influenced the alt right quite a bit. You could call him alt right although I don't know that he would accept the label.<br /><br />I don't object to most of Vox Day's list although I don't appreciate him trying to define the alt right conservatism + racism. To be clear, the problem in this is the conservatism, not the "racism".Matt@Occidentalism.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395220402283030311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-43030444173436866692018-02-23T10:21:39.545-08:002018-02-23T10:21:39.545-08:00Redd,
Which of Peterson's tenents, move him f...Redd,<br /><br />Which of Peterson's tenents, move him from the conservative camp, into the alt-right?Jeff LeVesquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10965742156279448637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-4878304053051604282018-02-23T09:35:03.468-08:002018-02-23T09:35:03.468-08:00In defining the Alt-Right, we start with what it&#...In defining the Alt-Right, we start with what it's not, i.e. it's not mainstream "corporate conservatism" and it's not libertarianism. Vox Day's list incorporated both. After that, it's what DOES the Alt-Right believe in, and Day's list is pretty good, although not comprehensive and with some points being arguable. John Derbyshire---who had a long run at National Review before he was fired for being insufficiently submissive to the left (same as Steve Sailer, Pat Buchanan, and others at NR)---grappled with Vox Day's 16 Points at:<br />http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/derb-at-the-mencken-club-am-i-alt-right/<br /><br />And found he pretty much agreed with 10 of them, had minor quibbles with 5 of them, and had a major quibble with one of them. He did not outright disagree with any of them. Nor did he say any of them are entirely wrong or false. FYI. <br /><br />Reddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084989411936052457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-60715237162965824972018-02-23T08:29:57.418-08:002018-02-23T08:29:57.418-08:00This definition of the alt-right has also been a s...This definition of the alt-right has also been a struggle for me, as I have noted earlier in this discussion. But I don't know that the blame can all be labeled on the press or whatever.<br /><br />The label is a new one, both adherents and enemies able to turn it into whatever they want.<br /><br />Someone recently posted here this list by vox day:<br /><br />http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html <br /><br />It seems comprehensive. Perhaps it is the best list out there. But, can it be said that all who carry the label "alt-right" adhere to the list? I don't know, but I doubt it. There may be other "alt-right" voices with different lists.<br /><br />If one takes the list as THE list for defining the alt-right, it strikes me that Peterson would agree with most of the items, might disagree with a few, and spend a lot of time on understanding definitions of terms used within the list to ensure all people in the dialogue held the same definition in mind.<br /><br />Yes, he has disavowed the label. But, like all labels, I guess it depends on how the term is defined.bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-38713958082035689472018-02-23T08:00:03.484-08:002018-02-23T08:00:03.484-08:00Peterson may disavow and condemn the Alt-Right bec...Peterson may disavow and condemn the Alt-Right because he's accepted the MSM presstitute lies regarding the definition of the movement. Or, he may have engaged in some protective virtue-signaling toward the left. Either way, his opinions about the Alt-Right are irrelevant: If his tenets are Alt-Right, they are Alt-Right, regardless. If he wishes to disavow the Alt-Right, maybe he should stop arguing in favor of Alt-Right values. :o)Reddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084989411936052457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-24046272095898634852018-02-23T06:59:35.085-08:002018-02-23T06:59:35.085-08:00"Peterson's 21st century conservatism mig..."Peterson's 21st century conservatism might be described as---wait for it---Alt-Right."<br /><br />The waiting came to an end quite a while ago. Peterson was accused of being alt-right immediately following his appearance on the world stage. He, in no uncertain terms, disavows him self from, and condemns the alt-right. Jeff LeVesquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10965742156279448637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-12406210606141489232018-02-22T20:52:40.891-08:002018-02-22T20:52:40.891-08:00I can add nothing at this time, I'm afraid to ...I can add nothing at this time, I'm afraid to your call for an alternative labeling regime, but as for race vs culture: dead right. It is a big deal. The left will always conflate the two to smear honest "culture warriors" like me. Ironically, I'm the exact OPPOSITE of racist, as you are. Capn Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08133441332228302495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-17729106231416084562018-02-22T20:34:15.303-08:002018-02-22T20:34:15.303-08:00It is not clear to me what you are asking. The de...It is not clear to me what you are asking. The definition of a nuclear family is clear, I believe: two parents (most would say married; most would say male and female) and their children. An extended family would include aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, etc.bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-53375810774889478342018-02-22T18:44:35.663-08:002018-02-22T18:44:35.663-08:00I was listening to ThaddeusRussell go on about the...I was listening to ThaddeusRussell go on about the nuclear family the other day (something he opposes as an assumed good) and the commentary was suggesting that the nuclear family is a product of capitalism, and prior to it, families were extended and close, but not "nuclear". It begs the question of what is the widely accepted definition, but he was clearly saying it implies father, mother, and children. The old world family of aunts uncles grandparents cousins etc., all in the same locale was outside his definition.<br /><br />I'm hadn't heard this before, and it doesn't seem to be your use.P Szarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09298180391605451618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-32446193930418047432018-02-22T10:22:13.922-08:002018-02-22T10:22:13.922-08:00I have not followed Bionic's blog for very lon...I have not followed Bionic's blog for very long (outside of LewRockwell.com, that is) so I don't know if this is an ongoing problem here but several people seem to be equating race with culture. My 2 cents is that it is never race - the problem is always culture and the way many people inside that culture leverage race to put pressure on people who wish to live differently.<br /><br />One example of this is the labeling of some black people as "Uncle Toms", simply because they wish to live in a productive, rather than a parasitical manner.<br /><br />Let's take a successful page from the socialists who change the terminology and sometimes even the meaning of well-established words to alter an argument in their favor. When we speak of cultures, let's not say that a culture is Black, Muslim, Latino, White, etc. Let's, instead, identify the most prominent trait, whether desirable or undesirable, and use that as a label - that will undermine our enemies' arguments and permit us to more fully center our discussions on the issues.Woody Barretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07174366266746908252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-34388584967554359872018-02-22T10:03:18.787-08:002018-02-22T10:03:18.787-08:00I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don'...I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't even drink coffee or tea. But I also believe that it's none of my business what other people put in their bodies, so long as I'm not involved in paying for the consequences. <br /><br />I have often been amused by people who freak out about Pot but don't bat an eye at martinis and beer.<br /><br />I believe it's detrimental for a culture to concern itself with this stuff (insofar as applying government violence to the issue is concerned) as the prohibition of such things inevitably leads to terrible violence, since there will always be a market for substances that alter mind and mood.<br /><br />The Pot folks are correct on this issue but they approach it incorrectly. They should, instead, focus more on the hypocrisy and violence of substance prohibition.<br /><br />This in no way challenges cultural prohibition of these substances. I often tell people who question me about my stance: "Drug use is wrong. Shooting people for drug use is worse".Woody Barretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07174366266746908252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-58208560513932500772018-02-22T09:47:48.586-08:002018-02-22T09:47:48.586-08:00Disagree, Matt. "Racism" is hatred of an...Disagree, Matt. "Racism" is hatred of an entire race *because* of their race. Alt-Righters don't hate any race, and in fact recognize that different races, just like different cultures, have various different strengths and weaknesses, and various different desirable and undesirable characteristics. It's called---wait for it---"diversity". (Just like individual people, come to think of it.)Reddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084989411936052457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-44649015944695880742018-02-22T08:01:09.150-08:002018-02-22T08:01:09.150-08:00White Nationalism is compatible with the Alt Right...White Nationalism is compatible with the Alt Right however. Some WN are on the alt right, many are not.<br /><br />Traditionally White Nationalism has been conservatism + racism, or even libertarianism + racism. Matt@Occidentalism.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395220402283030311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-19441210317676364732018-02-22T07:27:02.344-08:002018-02-22T07:27:02.344-08:00I guess it is fair to say that I sometimes have di...I guess it is fair to say that I sometimes have difficulty seeing through the fog....bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.com