tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post3908196172537707104..comments2024-03-28T09:59:13.754-07:00Comments on bionic mosquito: Thank You, Tim Russert!bionic mosquitohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-37143943357897008442013-07-15T18:51:00.387-07:002013-07-15T18:51:00.387-07:00Thank you for the kind comments. And thank you fo...Thank you for the kind comments. And thank you for the conversation.<br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-7707276101042139632013-07-15T18:36:58.039-07:002013-07-15T18:36:58.039-07:00Thank you for you civility and your responses. Tha...Thank you for you civility and your responses. Thank you for allowing me to express myself on your blog. As a follower of Ludwig von Mises and Classical Liberalism, I am of the opinion that in order to help the liberty movement grow it is important to tell the truth as often as possible. <br /><br />While I simply do not see Abraham Lincoln as anything but a lover of liberty, a principled man, and a failed president, not of his own doing, but because the slave powers waged war on him a month after he took office and then he was killed a week after they surrendered before his mission was fulfilled. I understand how others see him differently. Yet, it is difficult for me to see him as a tyrant because tyrants do not free people. I don't see him as a dictator because dictators do not go to the people for amendments to the laws ... dictators dictate law. I don't see him as a saint or the devil. I see him as a boy who grew up to be a man who made some good choices and some poor choices just like all men.<br /><br />I do agree with you: BM: "Smaller republics, smaller states, smaller confederations. One day (God willing), there will be a few million of these - instead of 190-odd that there are today (many of which sing from the same song-book anyway). Even better, no concept of state-monopoly over a physical jurisdiction. Then, people will have real choices about how to live their political lives."<br /><br />I wish you well and will be keeping your blog in my "favorites." Brother Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16375455364166026374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-43508050053097209542013-07-15T17:59:46.571-07:002013-07-15T17:59:46.571-07:00BJ: Yet, instead those states formed a new governm...BJ: Yet, instead those states formed a new government which centralize power even more than the Union from which they seceded.<br /><br />BM: On some things, yes. On others, based on statements in the Cornerstone Speech, no. It seems a bit mixed. But this is neither here nor there for my point.<br /><br />BJ: How can any of that possibly be considered 'decentralization'?<br /><br />BM: You seem to be confused about the term “decentralization.” <br /><br />Smaller republics, smaller states, smaller confederations. One day (God willing), there will be a few million of these - instead of 190-odd that there are today (many of which sing from the same song-book anyway). Even better, no concept of state-monopoly over a physical jurisdiction. Then, people will have real choices about how to live their political lives.<br /><br />Not every one of these must conform to my version (or yours) of a just society. But there will be infinite possibilities for one to find a form that fits - or (if one believes in miracles) create his own! <br /><br />That will be decentralization.<br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-15770096036671405902013-07-15T17:32:52.584-07:002013-07-15T17:32:52.584-07:00BM: This is the most critical issue. This is why y...BM: This is the most critical issue. This is why you find yourself at a crossroads with libertarians on this subject. Certain states wanted to form a new government – decentralize. Nothing different than 13 colonies did in 1776, and nothing different than Jefferson suggested was a legitimate exercise of power against the state. <br /><br />Yet, instead those states formed a new government which centralize power even more than the Union from which they seceded.<br /><br />Article IV of the Confederate Constitution nationalized slavery. They initiated conscription nearly a year before the Union and exempted slave owners. Before the war was over the Confederate nation required national business licenses in order to engage in trade. How can any of that possibly be considered 'decentralization'? Brother Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16375455364166026374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-88329293234701845452013-07-15T16:18:40.156-07:002013-07-15T16:18:40.156-07:00BJ: I am convinced that Jefferson Davis did [want ...BJ: I am convinced that Jefferson Davis did [want to go to war].<br /><br />BM: Please provide links that demonstrate the following: 1) he wanted war even if Lincoln let the South secede peacefully, and b) in order to impose the Confederate Constitution upon the northern states. These were your assertions. Provide facts. <br /><br />BJ: Best I can tell is that those trumped up contrivances came after the war as excuses. If you have some proof otherwise please direct me to it.<br /><br />BM: I did not suggest the other grievances were reason for war. Just legitimate grievances. I am working from the links you previously provided. Read the opening paragraphs of the cornerstone speech, where is listed some of the grievances of the South. These are legitimate grievances.<br /><br />BJ: [The non-attack on Washington] wasn't for not trying. It was just unsuccessful.<br /><br />BM: I took my statement from the Amazon description of the book – the link you provided. I will quote it again here: “Historians have long been perplexed over why the South didn't attack Washington, D.C., in the early days of the Civil War. In this absorbing history, the siege of the Union capital and the panic over an expected Confederate attack that never came…”<br /><br />The attack “never came.” Am I making this up? Now, are these historians “perplexed” about something that you are so certain of? Provide evidence, not assertions. Don’t give me links and then criticize me for using the information you provide.<br /><br />And I go back to my earlier point. Tie this all to your assertion that the South wanted a truly civil war – one to take over the federal government and the northern states – and not merely secession. <br /><br />BJ: Jefferson Davis had plans.<br /><br />BM: His wife’s invitation cards are curious. However, if Davis truly intended to attack and take over Washington, would his wife send invitations? There must be more than a wife’s invitations for tea for this to be worth pursuing. <br /><br />I went to find something about this…and instead stumbled on a couple of points completely counter to earlier assertions and comments of yours. From Wikipedia:<br /><br />“In meetings of his own Mississippi legislature, Davis had argued against secession, but when a majority of the delegates opposed him, he gave in….Several forts in Confederate territory remained in Union hands. Davis sent a commission to Washington with an offer to pay for any federal property on Southern soil, as well as the Southern portion of the national debt. Lincoln refused.”<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Davis <br /><br />You are losing credibility when I find such statements without even trying.<br /><br />BJ: I do not see that Lincoln had any choice but to defend the Union against aggression by fighting to suppress rebellion.<br /><br />BM: This is the most critical issue. This is why you find yourself at a crossroads with libertarians on this subject. Certain states wanted to form a new government – decentralize. Nothing different than 13 colonies did in 1776, and nothing different than Jefferson suggested was a legitimate exercise of power against the state. <br /><br />Big government types cannot stand this. Saying Lincoln had no choice doesn’t exonerate Lincoln; it merely makes him one more in a long line of big government, centralizing killers. King George had no choice either. Libertarians, on the other hand, find every reason to support decentralization. Small government types find reason to support action at a more local level – state, not federal for example.<br /><br />Lincoln is perfectly justified if consolidating the power of a central government is seen as a just cause. Libertarians do not see this. This fundamental issue likely lies at the basis of why you make no headway at the Mises site. You won’t make headway with me on this either. <br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-88855088230543454842013-07-15T14:56:13.930-07:002013-07-15T14:56:13.930-07:00I am not sure that Alex Stephens wanted to go to w...I am not sure that Alex Stephens wanted to go to war. I am convinced that Jefferson Davis did. He was a West Point graduate, had spent several years at war, and a former Secretary of War. He did order the bombing of Fort Sumter without any immediate threat of invasion.<br /><br />BM: But the South had other grievances, and legitimate ones.<br /><br />I have not been able to find anyone, in 1860, claiming any of the other grievances were worth seceding over except slavery. Best I can tell is that those trumped up contrivances came after the war as excuses. If you have some proof otherwise please direct me to it.<br /><br />BM: Don’t you see – the attack never came. <br /><br />It wasn't for not trying. It was just unsuccessful. That initial attack was foiled by Union soldiers who destroyed all the weapons at Harper's Ferry armory just 70 miles from Washington on April 18. When the Confederate army confiscated Harper's Ferry the next day they found the weapons useless. The Confederate army couldn't march to Washington unarmed. That event bought enough time for Union militia volunteers to beat the Confederate army from reaching Washington first.<br /><br />BM: Perhaps historians wouldn’t be perplexed if they only considered that there was little desire by the south to do so? So, you can state that those in DC lived in fear for a time; this is reasonable. <br /><br />It is reasonable because the threat was real. There was indeed some interest in the Confederacy overthrowing the Union. Jefferson Davis had plans.<br />"Jefferson Davis planned to be living in the White House by May 1, according to the plans of his wife, Varina. On April 17th, New York insurance executive William Holdredge wrote Secretary of State William H. Seward in exasperation, informing him that the "wife of the Rebel President Davis has had the imprudence to send cards to her lady acquaintances at the Saint Nicholas" - a favorite New York hotel for visiting Southerners - "inviting them to attend her reception in the White House at Washington on the first of May."<br /><br />BM: But once Lincoln summoned an army for defense, he could have left it at this. No?<br /><br />No, I do not see how Lincoln could leave it at that. What do you suppose would have happened if Lincoln would have sent the Union militia volunteers home on July 21, 1861 instead of sending them out to fight? What would the people who elected Lincoln have done? He was committed. Do you think the Confederate army would have just gone home? Why were they even there? Was Lincoln to try and operate the government surrounded by the Confederate army? I do not see that Lincoln had any choice but to defend the Union against aggression by fighting to suppress rebellion. <br /><br />BM: Lee says “…save in defense…” Are you suggesting he lied, and in fact was in pursuit of conquering Washington DC and every northern state?<br /><br />I am not suggesting that Lee lied. Lee was loyal to his state. When Virginia seceded Lee went with Virginia. Lee also stood to loose a lot of money if he lost his slaves. I am not sure how big of a role that played in his decision. It would have played a big role in mine if I was in his shoes.Brother Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16375455364166026374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-69164348518471230132013-07-15T10:08:15.423-07:002013-07-15T10:08:15.423-07:00BJ: There is nothing peaceful about cheating, stea...BJ: There is nothing peaceful about cheating, stealing, shooting, and bombing in order to enslave an entire race of people.<br /><br />BM: One sure way to end a dialogue about the events of the war is to wrap it up in slavery. There is no doubt the southern states desired slavery to continue. This was as wrong as it was at the founding of the Republic. There is also no doubt that slavery ended with the North’s victory in the war. This was the one good that came out of the calamity.<br /><br />But the South had other grievances, and legitimate ones.<br /><br />As to your descriptions of how politicians connived – cheated the system – is relatively meaningless, don’t you think? Show me an honest politician and an honest political system somewhere, anywhere. For every one you identify, you know there are one hundred that stand opposite this.<br /><br />Now, to your linked items:<br /><br />From the book, “The Siege of Washington”: “Historians have long been perplexed over why the South didn't attack Washington, D.C., in the early days of the Civil War. In this absorbing history, the siege of the Union capital and the panic over an expected Confederate attack that never came…”<br /><br />Don’t you see – the attack never came. Perhaps historians wouldn’t be perplexed if they only considered that there was little desire by the south to do so? So, you can state that those in DC lived in fear for a time; this is reasonable. But once Lincoln summoned an army for defense, he could have left it at this. No?<br /><br />From the Corner Stone speech: “Seven States have within the last three months thrown off an old government and formed a new. This revolution has been signally marked, up to this time, by the fact of its having been accomplished without the loss of a single drop of blood.”<br /><br />No blood so far.<br /><br />“As to whether we shall have war with our late confederates, or whether all matters of differences between us shall be amicably settled, I can only say that the prospect for a peaceful adjustment is better, so far as I am informed, than it has been.”<br /><br />This doesn’t sound like fighting words. Nor the words of a man preparing the south to overthrow the north.<br /><br />“While it is a fixed principle with them never to allow the increase of a foot of slave territory, they seem to be equally determined not to part with an inch ‘of the accursed soil.’”<br /><br />Had they parted peacefully with the south, are you certain there would have been 700,000 dead?<br /><br />From Lee’s letter: “The South, in my opinion, has been aggrieved by the acts of the North, as you say.”<br /><br />Aggrieved.<br /><br />“…I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honor for its preservation.”<br /><br />A reasoned statement by the man who would later lead the Confederate army.<br /><br />“Still, a Union that can only be maintained by swords and bayonets, and in which strife and civil war are to take the place of brotherly love and kindness, has no charm for me. I shall mourn for my country and for the welfare and progress of mankind. If the Union is dissolved, and the government disrupted, I shall return to my native state and share the miseries of my people; and, save in defense, will draw my sword on none.”<br /><br />Lee says “…save in defense…” Are you suggesting he lied, and in fact was in pursuit of conquering Washington DC and every northern state?<br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-82196240404755649782013-07-15T08:05:58.061-07:002013-07-15T08:05:58.061-07:00Lincoln had to take this threat seriously. Washing...Lincoln had to take this threat seriously. Washington only had about 900 Union soldiers at the time to defend the Union capitol and treasury.<br /><br />"On April 12, 1861 only hours after Confederate guns opened fire on Fort Sumter in the Charleston harbor, Confederate Secretary of War Leroy P. Walker appeared before a jubilant crowd in Montgomery, Alabama. "No man can tell when the war this day commenced will end," Walker thundered from the balcony of the Exchange Hotel, at the heart of the Confederate capital, "but I will prophesy that the flag which now floats the breeze here will float over the dome of the old capital at Washington before the first of May."<br />The Siege of Washington<br />http://www.amazon.com/The-Siege-Washington-Untold-Twelve/dp/0199931186/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373899256&sr=8-1&keywords=the+siege+of+washingtonBrother Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16375455364166026374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-75050587676415979472013-07-15T08:00:21.480-07:002013-07-15T08:00:21.480-07:00BM: If Lincoln lived liberty, he would have allowe...BM: If Lincoln lived liberty, he would have allowed the states that wanted to go another way to do so, peacefully.<br /><br />If the Southern states would have left peacefully, then that would be true. But the South did not attempt peaceful secession. <br /><br />Their first action was to cheat the system. Nine states denied Lincoln ballot access. He won the election anyway. <br /><br />South Carolina Governor Gist began arms build-up in October 1860, before the election, by increasing the militia by 10,000 men and armed them with the help of then Union Secretary of War John B. Floyd who left the Union in disgrace shortly after S.C. seceded and later became a Confederate General. They were preparing for war if Lincoln won the election. <br /><br />Lincoln called for peaceful solutions to the crisis in speech after speech after he won. <br />Speech at Independence Hall<br />February 22, 1861<br />"Now, in my view of the present aspect of affairs, there is no need of bloodshed and war. There is no necessity for it. I am not in favor of such a course, and I may say in advance, there will be no blood shed unless it be forced upon the Government. The Government will not use force unless force is used against it."<br />http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/speech-at-independence-hall/<br /><br />Lincoln's first inaugural address March 4, 1861, "In your hands, my dissatisfied fellow-countrymen, and not in mine, is the momentous issue of civil war. The Government will not assail you. You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors. You have no oath registered in heaven to destroy the Government, while I shall have the most solemn one to "preserve, protect, and defend it."<br /><br />After the South lost the election, they sent southern secessionist commissioners throughout the South warning if they did not secede, then the slaves would be set free to rape the women and pillage the lands. It wasn't true, but it worked the people, especially the slave masters, into a frenzy. Secession was not really popular before that.<br /><br />A month later, South Carolina declared themselves seceded from the Union and confiscated Union property in the process. Stealing property and offering to pay for it later is wrong.<br /><br />A couple of weeks later when President Buchanan tried to resupply his Union troops stationed at Fort Sumter the South Carolina troops fired upon an unarmed ship (The Star of the West). That is like shooting a man in the back. <br /><br />Months later, when Lincoln tried to resupply Fort Sumter peacefully they bombed the Union fort and 85 Union men for 36 hours. They did not bomb the fort for a day and a half hoping to not kill anyone. They were not under any immediate threat of invasion. April 8, 1861, Lincoln sent Robert S. Chew to meet with South Carolina Governor Pickens to inform him, "I am directed by the President of the United States to notify you to expect an attempt will be made to supply Fort-Sumpter with provisions only; and that, if such attempt be not resisted, no effort to throw in men, arms, or amunition, will be made, without further notice, or in case of an attack upon the Fort''. General Beauregard was there.<br /><br />http://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln/lincoln4/1:505?rgn=div1;view=fulltext<br /><br />According to Confederate V.P. Alexander H. Stephens in his "Cornerstone" speech and Article IV of the Confederate Constitution they seceded in order to nationalize, expand, and perpetuate African slavery. <br /><br />There is nothing peaceful about cheating, stealing, shooting, and bombing in order to enslave an entire race of people. Peaceful secession would have been like Robert E. Lee said, "the consent of all the people in convention assembled." Otherwise "Secession is nothing but revolution."<br /><br />http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/<br />http://almostchosenpeople.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/lee-on-secession/Brother Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16375455364166026374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-24393389750317604912013-07-14T20:30:49.998-07:002013-07-14T20:30:49.998-07:00BJ: Historians know that Abraham Lincoln loved lib...BJ: Historians know that Abraham Lincoln loved liberty and the Union created by the founders.<br /><br />BM: If Lincoln lived liberty, he would have allowed the states that wanted to go another way to do so, peacefully.<br /><br />BJ: His only choice to avoid war in April 1861 would have been to surrender the Union…. the war would not have been avoided by surrendering the Union anyway….The war was going to happen anyway because the slave powers needed slavery nationalized….The war was waged on the Union by the CSA in order to nationalize, expand, and perpetuate African slavery as they stated in Article IV of the Confederate Constitution ratified on March 11, 1861.<br /><br />BM: It is immaterial what the Confederate Constitution said. For the claim that the Confederate states were going to fight no matter what in order to take over the government of all of the previously united states, you will need to provide quotes and links - including links to evidence that prominent individuals (including Lincoln) took this threat seriously. <br />bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-17992507200545452742013-07-14T16:15:45.645-07:002013-07-14T16:15:45.645-07:00I felt bad for Ron Paul when he said that to Tim R...I felt bad for Ron Paul when he said that to Tim Russert on the national stage. It was embarrassing. Historians know that Abraham Lincoln loved liberty and the Union created by the founders. The Civil War wasn't Lincoln's War or the War of Northern aggression. Those are lies that have been told to disguise how and why the war started. Libertarians get it wrong with they take Lincoln out-of-context to degrade him. <br /><br />History proves that Lincoln did not want to go to war and he went to great lengths to avoid war. His only choice to avoid war in April 1861 would have been to surrender the Union. Lincoln was not elected to surrender the Union and the war would not have been avoided by surrendering the Union anyway. It may have been postponed if Lincoln would have surrendered Fort Sumter to the Confederates, but the war was going to happen anyway because the slave powers needed slavery nationalized.<br /><br />The war was not fought to free the slaves that much is true. The war was waged on the Union by the CSA in order to nationalize, expand, and perpetuate African slavery as they stated in Article IV of the Confederate Constitution ratified on March 11, 1861. They were not under any immediate threat of invasion when they bombed Fort Sumter. When Lincoln called up Union militia volunteers to defend the Union they stayed in Washington in defense mode until July when they had no choice but to attack or be attacked again. In July, 35,000 well armed Confederate army troops were camped 30 miles from Washington aggressing on the Union. Brother Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16375455364166026374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-79888819098444773282013-06-25T19:28:11.583-07:002013-06-25T19:28:11.583-07:00Thank you.Thank you.bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-70377278435505274292013-06-25T18:31:25.937-07:002013-06-25T18:31:25.937-07:00Great stuff as always, BM. I remember this moment ...Great stuff as always, BM. I remember this moment fondly. The cringing uneasy feeling I felt when Russert asked the questions; the unhinged feelings of triumph and Dr Paul's truthful and always straight-forward answers. No doubt this moment began a trip down a rabbit hole or two for many. Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13561894838778546876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-33461810392535198542013-06-22T07:28:33.878-07:002013-06-22T07:28:33.878-07:00Corrected (I hope!)
Thank you.Corrected (I hope!)<br /><br />Thank you.bionic mosquitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002548958078731031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-648884752216444797.post-80412089346771198042013-06-22T06:21:35.394-07:002013-06-22T06:21:35.394-07:00You pasted the same citation twice at the begginin...You pasted the same citation twice at the beggining of the post!Pedro Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09879509349550472780noreply@blogger.com